Voice4Equity welcomes Dr. Sonia Dinnall, Superintendent of Springfield Public Schools in Massachusetts. Having made history as the first black woman superintendent of Springfield Public Schools, Dr. Dinnall has a strong focus on community and academic success and is committed to ensuring the best education possible for all students.
In her discussion with Dr. Christina Kishimoto, Dr. Dinnall emphasized the importance of representation and mentorship in leadership roles, particularly for women of color. Dr. Dinnall’s dedication to empowering others and fostering a supportive network highlights her commitment to advancing education and equity in Springfield Public Schools.
Enjoy the conversation with Dr. Dinnall and Dr. Kishimoto below.
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The following transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Dr. Kishimoto
Hello everyone. I’m Christina Kishimoto, I am here with The Stories We Must Tell, and we have a great story. I have an incredible guest with me today, Dr Sonia Dinnall. Welcome. Dr Dinnall.
Dr. Dinnall
Thank you so much. It is an honor and a privilege to be here.
Dr. Kishimoto
We sound really formal, but the fact is, Sonia and I are friends and colleagues. I have such deep respect for her work. She is a sister of mine, and we’ve kept track of each other’s work nationally, so this is really a lot of fun to sit with a colleague and friend today.
Let’s get right to it. You are starting as superintendent of Springfield Public Schools in Springfield, Massachusetts, which is 30 miles or so north of Hartford, Connecticut, which was my stomping grounds for a while, and your stomping grounds. So, we have a lot to talk about there. First, congratulations! You must be excited about this appointment.
Dr. Dinnall
I am definitely excited. It’s surreal, because I was born and raised in Springfield, and so this is a full-circle moment. I never considered being a superintendent of Springfield, but here I am. I’m grateful for the opportunity and I’m looking forward to it.
Dr. Kishimoto
It’s pretty exciting to be going back to your hometown and community to serve there in the top seat, the CEO seat, the superintendency. On the show we often talk about that there’s a point in time for leadership and serving our communities. What makes this so special for you at this point in time?
Dr. Dinnall
Certainly, it’s important for me now, because I’m able to come back and serve the children of the children that I had as a teacher, as a middle school science teacher. I am now responsible for the educational well-being and the academic success of the children of those I went to high school with, or the children and the grandchildren of those who were my students. So, it has been a number of years.
My first day on the job at Forest Park Middle School here in Springfield, and it’s just an honor to be entrusted with such an important task, such an important responsibility. It’s a moral imperative to ensure that all our students receive the best education possible. Because of my years of experience, I feel that I am well prepared and poised to do my best to assemble a team of like-minded individuals who have a laser-right focus on the academic success and the well-being of our students.
Dr. Kishimoto
Sonia, you’re a product of Springfield Public Schools as well. So, this is like, your neighborhood, your hood, your hometown. I mean, this is incredibly special, and it’s a unique opportunity. We don’t always get to go back and lead where we grew up and where we earned our degree, so that must be incredibly special as well.
Tell me a little bit about the kind of reactions from community members or even friends of yours who are looking at you saying, hey, girl, you’re back in Springfield doing this work.
Dr. Dinnall
It has been overwhelming and very humbling. The community support has been mind-blowing. I did not know there were so many people rooting for me. Once my name went public, the emails, text messages, phone calls, and well wishes just came flooding in from folks that I went to elementary school with, neighbors who watched me grow up. And people are recognizing me in the supermarket, waving at me from their cars. And it’s just been amazing.
I’ve gotten so many awards and recognitions as the first female and the first black female to be selected to run the Springfield Public Schools. The community has rallied around me. They have just been so phenomenally supportive, even when the process was contentious and strained, they told me to keep my chin up, my head up. They continue to reassure me that I was not selected for my gender, I was not selected for my race. I was not selected because I was a neighbor of theirs. Still, I was selected because they stacked credential up against credential, resume against resume, and interview responses against interview responses. They felt and believed that I was the best person for the position. So, I was just so humbled by their confidence in me and their support. I wish I could articulate it better than that, but the community and the city have been phenomenal.
Dr. Kishimoto
You can hear the warmth in what you’re saying, and that’s incredibly special. That’s a kind of community warmth that comes when they know you’re right for the community. And that is really special. What is incredible, though, is that you are the first woman, and the first black woman seated in the top seat of the superintendency. When we have these conversations on the show, we often have first with us. First woman, the first woman of a certain racial background or identity and so there’s still a lot of work to do in this nation.
Is that something you feel is an accolade you can use, and then bring other women with you? How are you thinking about this kind of historical first?
Dr. Dinnall
Well, you know, I’m putting it in context, because I know, although I am the first woman and first black woman, I’m the third person of color. So being the third person of color to hold this position, I am trusting that we at Springfield are doing our part to normalize black and brown leadership. In this country, we have all been acculturated to recognize certain genders and skin tones as those who can be trusted. Those who are phenomenal leaders, those who are the only people who are groomed and nurtured and prepped to lead. But in Springfield, they have made some decisions that are starting to help people understand that the characteristics of high-quality effect of leadership come wrapped in all colors and come in all genders. So, I am proud of the school committee for normalizing or doing their part to normalize black and brown leadership.
I’ve been very fortunate in my 30-plus years as an educator to have seen women of color ascend to this level with grace, integrity, expertise, finesse, and wisdom and do very well. I’ve been fortunate to watch them. I’ve been fortunate to be mentored by them. I’ve been fortunate to be poured into by so many. And representation matters. I trust and believe, and I hope and pray that as I take on this amazing role other black and brown girls will look at me and say, one day, one day. I believe it was Vice President Kamala Harris who said, I may be the first, but I will not be the last. So, I borrow that from her and say the same for everyone to hear. I may be the first, but it is my sincere prayer that I’m not the last.
Dr. Kishimoto
I’m glad that you gave the kind of the context of being the third leader of color because that history is important. And Springfield Public Schools being just north of Hartford, where I was superintendent and led, was my sister city. So, we have a lot of similarities. Springfield Public was very diverse in terms of students and community. And there’s this richness of language, culture, and history in Springfield. The fact that there have been leaders that have been representative of the community has been so important. So, while you as a black woman coming in as a first in that seat, there’s a history that continues, and I think that is so important to highlight and for kids, our students, to see that in their leadership.
So, you and I crossed paths ages ago, and certainly in the context of Hartford and Springfield. Hartford and Springfield are near and dear to my heart. And I love talking about those communities because they are very diverse. Small city and really special. You passed through Hartford Public Schools. That’s where you and I got to be colleagues and got to know each other. I’d love for you to take us back to that time and what that history was like for you to have experience in Springfield, go to Hartford, and now end up back in Springfield.
Dr. Dinnall
I always called Hartford my home away from because it is as near and dear to me as Springfield is. I was beyond blessed to have leadership who trusted me, empowered me, gave me a voice, and created a seat at the table for me.
Wasn’t always the case when I was in Springfield, but I have to say having a woman of color, Dr Kishimoto, as my assistant superintendent when I first came to Hartford and then became my superintendent, the way you led gave me the wings to fly. I was not accustomed to having that much autonomy in any role that I was given, coming from Springfield. I didn’t have that much autonomy, and therefore, I wasn’t able to develop my leadership skills as well as my voice, and my critical thinking skills, and my problem-solving skills. But because you entrusted me, and I don’t know if it was because of your own experiences, but you trusted me and empowered me, and entrusted me with some high-level critical projects and initiatives right out the gate, and I wanted to make sure I honored that by doing my level best. Wasn’t perfect. Made some mistakes, but they were never held against me.
So, you were very strategic and intentional in creating an environment that was conducive to risk-taking, vulnerability, and growth, and because of that, I feel the 10 years I spent in Hartford Public Schools were some of the best 10 years of my career. I mean, from working with the Obama administration, you and I being at that town hall meeting with Secretary Arne Duncan and Senator Murphy and Senator Blumenthal and the governor, and working closely with the mayor at that time, you were never selfish in the opportunities. As a matter of fact, I remember when you could no longer serve on one of the boards at the University of Hartford, and you handed me those reigns. I knew I had to honor that by ensuring that I did my best with Hartford and never did anything less than get the gains and actualize the vision that you so skillfully shared with us, we’ve clearly understood what your bottom line was, and it was the best for all of our students. And because you entrusted that to us, and you empowered us, and trusted us to do that, we were able to make some amazing gains under your leadership.
Those 10 years were the 10 years of growth that prepared me to go back to Springfield and lead a turnaround high school for three years and just gain that school-based experience that allowed me to be prepared to take on this responsibility. So, thank you. I feel like you just walked me through.
Those years in Hartford, there were a couple of points I want to pull out from what you said, and one is, being well-networked with others who let each other shine. We’ve gotta lift each other, and as women and as women of color, we’ve got to provide that opportunity for one another and trust that people will fill that seat and elevate that seat well beyond our expectations because we’re allowing them to lead. And so, that whole leadership, passing that on to others and elevating others, is something that we all have to be very intentional about. The other is the kind of work that we can do when we’re willing to be bold leaders and say, if our focus is about kids, then let’s just sweep out every excuse that there is about why something isn’t what it should be right now, and let’s just make it happen.
Dr. Kishimoto
The team in Hartford then and the team there now is incredible. And, I’m so excited about the work you’re going to be doing in Springfield. I do remember that trip with Arne Duncan, because of the work you were leading on college and career readiness with students and the FAFSA numbers that we took off the charts, it got his attention out of DC. He came to visit with us in Hartford and considering that Hartford had been beaten up for so many years as an underperforming district and that we were on the rise as a city and as a community. To have him visit was important because it said, yes, we are willing to lead in the ways that we need to lead on behalf of our students. I’m excited about the kind of mindset that you’re going to bring to Springfield.
Dr. Dinnall
That was just an incredible time. I think I was floating on air in that environment with the people who were assembled at that table. And yes, it had a lot to do with FASFA, but we also have to remember it had a lot to do with the Hartford Promise. So, he came because of the college affordability and the vision that you clearly communicated and laid out before us. And I remember the beginnings of that Hartford Promise. I was just coming on board, and you got a hold of the Kalamazoo Promise and the Denver Promise and all these other Promises across the nation. And you said, why not Hartford? Why not Harvard? And there you have it. We sent so many students to college, our acceptance rate went up. Our persistent rate went up. And I love the fact that the data spoke for the work. We weren’t just giving anecdotal stories, that are wonderful and important, but the qualitative and quantitative data spoke to the work. The results were evident and indisputable. So, like you said, bold vision brings bold actions and bold results.
Dr. Kishimoto
And I really appreciate that you’re sharing these points in time across your leadership experience and where you are now because there are women like yourself who are saying, I think I’m going to start applying for the superintendency. I’ve had this pull that says, you should be stepping up into this top seat. You can lead.
We need representation, as you said, but we also need those leaders who are innovative and believe in, why not, like we said in Hartford. Why not Hartford? Why not Springfield? Why not any other place in this nation to give the best to deliver on that promise to our students?
I’d love for you to share with our audience, especially our audience of women who are aspiring to the superintendency, what are some of your words of wisdom as they consider, or maybe get intimidated about not considering the superintendency, considering the political climate we’re in.
Dr. Dinnall
Yes, the political climate will definitely give you pause and cause you to pray and think long and hard before you even push send on that application, which was my case. I would say, go for it. You have what it takes. You are stronger than you think. You’re wiser than you think. You have the expertise to do it. Just be careful and do your homework.
Before I applied, I spoke to my trusted inner, inner, inner circle. I kept my application confidential. Only about five people knew I was applying. I did my homework. I jumped on the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education website. Started looking at data, started combing through data. I was fortunate that I was working for Springfield Public Schools, still am working for Springfield Public Schools, so I was able to get in our data warehouse and look at some data, and fortunate again, that I have a long-standing relationship with many of the folks at Central Office. I was able to send them emails and ask them questions. I did my homework to find out if this was a good fit for me, if it was a good fit for me at this stage of my career, if it was a good fit for me with this demographic, did I still have the passion to take on such an awesome opportunity and responsibility.
I told myself if I don’t get it, that’s okay as well. But I did do my homework.
Once I went public, I had 10 pages of notes for the interview, so I was well prepared, and just really made sure that I had the data that I needed. I went to the screening interview and again, told myself that if I don’t get it, that’s okay because there are other opportunities for me to pursue my passion of doing what’s best for children. So, I led with my passion. I didn’t lead with the position. I did not lead with my desire to be first. That never crossed my mind.
What was central to me were the faces of every black and brown student I would pass in the hallways. I started thinking about the students that I had as a science teacher, where some of them are now, and did I do my best for them. And if I had a chance to lead the district, what would I do differently to ensure that those that I’m responsible for? What was my learning? What was my most valuable learning from my years of experience? And how could I bring that learning to impact the lives and the futures of so many students? So those were the questions that I grappled with, the self-reflection that I engaged in before I decided to apply.
You just have to do the self-work before you hit send on that application and just know yourself and ask yourself, is this really something that I am passionate about. Will I be able to weather the storms that will come at me? And is it worth it? And you will inevitably reach the conclusion that we all have reached that yes, it is worth it. The unpleasant parts of the journey are worth it. When you walk through the halls or when you’re in the supermarket and you see the faces of the families and the children, who are beaming because they see you and they know that you see them and that their voice matters and that you respect them. That’s the best feeling in the world. You will say over and over again, yes, the journey was worth it. Yes, I’m going to apply, because they need me and I need them, and we’re going to do it together.
Dr. Kishimoto
I love that and I appreciate that you are so open and sharing part of your process and experience going through that process. One thing that jumps out at me is being very careful about taking the time to think about whether your district that you’ve been a part of for a long time, or that you grew up in, in your case, whether that’s in fact, the one that you should be leading in. You took the time to think about that. It’s not an automatic. It’s not just because I’ve been here, I’m the right leader for it, but rather, I know how intentional you were in really thinking through this. It’s not just about the preparation, it’s about what am I going to bring. What’s going to happen when I take the seat? How am I going to lead?
I think the thinking process you went through before this was so important, in the kind of conversations that we know from public meetings that the Springfield board was looking for and wanted to know and were thinking very intentionally themselves about who is the best leader for this point in time. And obviously, you are the best leader. You were selected. We are so excited about that, and so we’re going to just keep tracking your work as you take on the helm there and lead there.
It’s exciting to think about Kimberly Armstrong in Portland Public Schools. She was in Portland Public Schools for a while and now came back as the superintendent there. We have these women leading in different places, Gloria Ciriza, who was my interviewee for our July issue, is also the first woman to lead in 76 years of history in the San Diego County Public Schools, which is surprising in a community in California that’s so diverse that has had such rich gender and racial diversity and yet not in the top seat. Having these change leaders coming into seats, bringing perspectives, is so exciting to just know that there’s this force of new leaders coming in and women leaders coming in, leading our nation’s schools.
So, we are so excited. There is a large network of people here to support you. I’d love to wrap up with you talking about how you intend to think about the network of people who are your confidante, your support. How do you think about building that as you transition into this seat?
Dr. Dinnall
It’s so interesting that you should say that because I belong to some professional organizations, and none of them feel as supportive as Voice4Equity. It is critical for women to support women, and I have the support of so many other organizations that are of mixed genders and mixed races, but there’s just something comforting and safe about women supporting women. So I plan on jumping in with both feet and utilizing all the resources.
I feel the safety of my sister circle, and just really lean on them and pick their brains, and learn from their mistakes and are vulnerable and transparent with them, ask for advice, and just really trust that they have gone before me and that they have my best interests at heart so I can fully lean on them and depend on them to help me in those tight, difficult times, because they will come. They will come.
Dr. Kishimoto
But there’s no training like training on the job when you’re a superintendent, and we know that. And what’s incredible is the collective, the networks, the incredible women leading in this nation today, and so we are so glad to have you amongst those serving in the superintendent seat, and we wish you the very best, Sonia.
As a dear colleague and friend, of course, I am always here with you and for you. So, call upon me and all of us at any point.
Thank you for being with us and sharing your story.
Dr. Dinnall
Thank you so much, Christina. You are such an integral part of my journey. I am so grateful for you and all you continue to do for so many of us who are coming up through this new opportunity so many of us are embarking on. I hope I can do the same for others, just as you have done for so many of us. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
And I look forward to being a resource for Voice4Equity as so many women take on leadership roles.
Dr. Kishimoto
Thank you, Sonia. I am so excited to have you on the show and as a plug for an upcoming opportunity to bring women superintendents together in January, we are meeting in Phoenix, Arizona for our Technology, Power, and, Equity conference. It is a by-women for women learning event, on technology and AI, so hopefully we will have you there, Sonia, where women from across the country will come together. Again, thank you for being with us.
Dr. Dinnall
Thank you. You take care.
