The following transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Dr. Kishimoto:
So good morning, Dr. Katrise Perera. I am so excited to see you, my dear friend, and have some time to talk to you today!
Dr. Perera:
Absolutely. Well, it’s great to be here. I do miss being on the west coast, as you are, but I’m definitely much happier in the deep South.
Dr. Kishimoto:
Yeah, I don’t know if I should take it personally that I moved to this area and you moved out of this area. But we can talk about that if you want to. [laugh] So you are a superintendent in Lancaster Independent School District. I’m so excited about the work that you’re doing there. You’re not only doing work locally, but your name and your person are also on the national front, working on policy issues that are important to our kids today. And you are also a great advocate for women. So how fitting that on the first day of women’s history month, you and I are chatting.
Dr. Perera:
Yeah. How about that? That’s a great privilege. But I’m excited to share as well with you and the audience.
Dr. Kishimoto:
So I’d love to start off with you just sharing with us, who are the women in your life who shaped you?
Dr: Perera:
Well, there’s a lot. So where do you start? I’m glad you asked that in the plural form because definitely there were so many. But I would say the one that really gave me the great foundation was my creole grandmother, who raised me along her hemlines, and taught me a lot of things, including equity. And I didn’t realize that until later in life. When we sat down to the dinner table, everybody had a plate. Everybody had the same thing, but not the same amount. But everyone got up from the table full. My plate never runneth over like my grandfather’s; however, I know that I went to bed full as well.
She taught me things like cutting the fat in the kitchen, right? We wanted to utilize the ingredients that we had. In making gumbo, you use everything you have to put into that gumbo and waste not. So those things parlayed into my leadership style as well. And also coming to the table and talking through problems and issues. There was always a family meeting at the table. So you take those same skills, and you apply them as you become a leader in whatever capacity. Along with athletics and the number of coaches I had, they really taught me the foundation. But as I got into my career, I tried not to forget where I came from. And you might see this apron [hanging next to her desk at work]. This is an apron hanging in the background that belonged to my grandmother. And that was her Sunday best apron. And that apron helps ground me on days where I’m not feeling this, this work. And on days where you know, I just have to be reminded of who I am and where I came from. That apron caught a lot of tears.
However, my grandmother never let me quit anything. So she’d always make me go back out. But as I became a professional, I would tell you the likes of Rosa Atkins, who I first met when I was in Reiko County, she saw something in me that I didn’t know that I had, and you know, I was certainly content on being a teacher. But Rosa said, No, we need you to do something different. Maryland Royal was another one in Reiko County, who saw me again when I couldn’t see, and I constantly seek her advice today, including Rosa. Also, Moselle Booker, who I would tell you took a chance on me 20-something years ago, as a teacher. I was supposed to be student teaching, but my teacher that I was supposed to be working with had gone out over the summer on maternity leave and decided not to come back. But Moselle said, let me work with you. I think we can do this without her. And here we are.
But I will also tell you, women who I continue to lean on, and work with, who have become my mentors and coaches, as well as my friends. There are people like yourself, who I consider a sister Sup. I have other female superintendents across the nation that I also consider my sister Sups in this work, who purely unselfishly will stop whatever they’re doing, if I reach out needing help, you know, they played an integral role throughout my career. But more recently, with the COVID pandemic, we came together as a group and said, we’re all kind of experiencing the same thing. And this amazing group of women who provide me with invaluable guidance and support whenever asked. They mentor me. They helped me gain different perspectives and helped me ensure that I’m able to continue to succeed. So, I stand on the shoulders of a lot of different women. And it hasn’t just been women. However, since the question and the topic is about women, I will stay with that.
Dr. Kishimoto:
Well, I appreciate you sharing that. Oftentimes, I’m sure you find this as well, I come across the younger generation of women coming through and aspiring to the superintendent position, and wondering whether they should pursue that role, and they want to know how did I find my network? How did I find my affinity group? How do they become part of an affinity group? And I’d love to hear how you seek out and put in place your affinity group. What does it mean to have an affinity group? How do you put that together? How do you think about the people who are going to be there for you?
Dr. Perera:
Absolutely. When you’re looking to do something like that, I will say in Oregon and in Texas, as I led in both of those states, it became very evident that I really needed to find an affinity group with people who were in similar situations as me, but also were female. I can comfortably say, that we lead differently and we are treated and responded to in a different way. And so it was just trying to find common ground. And in positions where you are, to find people who can support you. To me, it makes sense to start with truly understanding yourself and what you need because sometimes people just want to connect with you, but what do they need? Or what do you need from them? And, you know, I always look at relationships as either a blessing or a lesson. And sometimes it’s both. And that can be true. But once you have a clear understanding of your needs and that person’s needs, I think you can begin to identify specific individuals or groups that you align with in your values or your profession or your beliefs. And by doing so, I think you can recognize that there are connections between yourself and similar experiences. I think you also learn that these individuals help you open up to possibilities that you may not have been as brave enough to do on your own. They help you gain support from those who can help you reach those goals. Sometimes I think in leadership roles, people are a little bit shy to ask for help because it makes them seem weak. But being vulnerable is also being courageous in your work. It doesn’t mean that you know everything, but it shows that you know how to ask for help and resources to utilize them. And I think being a part of an affinity group gives me a sense of community and belonging. It helps me feel more empowered and confident in my work and what I do as I lead while being a female.
Dr. Kishimoto:
Oh, so well said, I completely agree with how you’ve couched how you start to think about pulling together your affinity group. And what’s interesting is that asking for help and understanding that no matter where you are in leadership, you do need folks around you who you can turn to. And I hope that the COVID pandemic taught us all that none of us knew what we were doing. And so we need each other, to support one another. And we also have so many unresolved needs and issues in terms of making sure that every one of our children is successful in school. None of us have figured out all these answers. And so that affinity group is so important in that way.
Can you compare what it was like leading in Oregon to leading in Texas? There are very few women leading in Texas, especially women of color.
Dr. Perera:
Well, I would say the same about Oregon. You also have to look at the population where you’re going as well. And I knew what I was going into. But I didn’t realize that I was going to be the only black woman as a superintendent in the state of Oregon and was the only black superintendent for the first year and a half. But I will say to you, I’ve never really lingered about being the first of anything or the only. My grandmother used to tell me this, especially as I became a principal and I was excited about being the first female. She was like, you know, you really shouldn’t be concerned about being the first. You should be concerned about not being the last. And that hit home. I was feeling very competent and excited about my new job but then she gave me a whole new perspective to go into the job. Which was, don’t worry about being the first, worry about not being the last. Our profession is dominated by women until you get to the administrative world. And you and I have both lingered into a profession where it’s dominated by males. And in particular, if you look across the country, white males. In Texas, there are 1100 districts, public school districts, I don’t know how many private or charters there are. But I know for public schools, there’s around 1100. There are seven of us. That’s deplorable in my opinion. Most of our students are black and brown. We have a leadership that does not reflect and represent our students. And so the similarity between the two is that there’s a lack of representation. But there’s always an opportunity to continue to prove oneself and to get better. I advise aspiring leaders, as my grandmother advised me, don’t worry about being first or the only, worry about not being the last. Because then you know you’ve done the work you have set out as a goal and have served the learning community where you’re working very well.
Texas has a very rigorous accountability system, much more so than Oregon. And there’s a difference. It is not that Oregon didn’t have an accountability system; they did. But there was some flexibility and some options. There wasn’t so much local control. However, Texas prides itself on being local control. But it really isn’t. Not with the accountability system that the state puts on. And again, if you’re doing the good work, and you’re doing what’s best for your kids, accountability systems, I won’t say they don’t mean anything, but I’m not pressured by them because I know that I have a moral imperative as an educator to do what’s right by my students. And that’s always kept me in the forefront and allowed me to ensure that I was serving my community well. Because I like to say, what’s good for kids is good for the community, what’s good for the community is good for the locality, what’s good for the locality is good for the state, and what’s good for the state ultimately, is good for this great country that we live in.
Dr. Kishimoto:
Just seven out of 1100 superintendent barely registers a percentage. So we can calculate it, certainly, but it barely does.
Dr. Perera:
On the national average, at least, it’s about 2% for black women.
Dr. Kishimoto:
Yes. And so you have to make an intentional decision as a woman to go into a space like that. And you don’t have to. You can go to a place that has a higher percentage. Some states now have somewhere between 19 and 27%, which is more in line with the national average. And so what would you advise women who aren’t necessarily seeking to be the first, and that’s not what they’re hanging their hat on, but they’re looking at states like Texas, where they’re going to be one of a few. Is there advice you give them about making that decision? Or how to make that intentional choice?
Dr. Perera:
Sure, I’m not sure that I could really give that advice because, to me, it’s about knowing thyself. I guess if I had to choose a message to other women who aspire to do this work, no matter if it’s in Texas or wherever, you’ve got to stay true to yourself and know which hill you’re going to die on, right? As a superintendent, you got to know what you stand for and not allow anyone to waver. Not saying that you can’t collaborate and work through problems with it, with people. But if you’re going to really pursue your passion for this work, I would advise, don’t give up. In Texas it’s hard to break the ceiling. I was a superintendent for a number of years. This is my 10th year, my second in Lancaster. It was hard to break into Texas if you weren’t in Texas. And my plan was always to come back to Texas because I was an area superintendent in Houston back in 2010 and 2011 before becoming a superintendent in Virginia. I’m a southern girl from the south. I’m from Louisiana, I grew up along the bayou, as I shared earlier. The plan was always to come back to Texas. It took me a while to get here. But in addition to that, I would say as for aspiring leaders in this work, networking and building strong relationships with other professionals in this work, in your field, is essential to success in any leadership position. But more so, this one because in your district, you’re the only superintendent, right? There could be four or five different assistant principals, executive directors, directors, and different administrative levels. But in your district, you’re the only superintendent.
And so if you don’t have that networking and the ability to build relationships, and the affinity groups that can help mentor and provide you with some valuable guidance and advice and succeeding in this field of your choice, obviously, having a strong system helps with that. It helps you navigate the challenges we all dealt with, with the pandemic. But also the successes of your career journey is also invaluable. So, I don’t think I’m in a position, if you will, to give great advice to individuals. But I would say if you don’t know yourself, you aren’t in this to pursue your passions, you don’t have, I guess, the strong skin or tough skin, to not give up, then this is probably not the work for you. It’s certainly not for the weak by any means. Pandemic or no pandemic, there’s always a challenge every day.
Dr. Kishimoto:
Well, I think there is that lesson for women who are aspirants to think about where they want to lead and what network they want and need immediately around them. And I think your story says a lot about that. And you’re talking about how you thought about it and made decisions, says a lot about that intentionality.
So we’re in tough sociopolitical times. What is the number one issue for kids, for youth today? To make sure in particular, that our students of color, and all students, are growing up having the space and time with one another to learn each other’s history and to do well academically, to pursue their passions. What’s the leading policy issue for you or the leading need for young people today?
Dr. Perera:
I think our students today have exposure and access to a lot of information. And truly, they walk into our classrooms every day with a device that’s more powerful than the computer that put a man on the moon, right, they walk into our classrooms with that. I think going forward for our students, we have to ensure that we teach them not just about their history, or not just about the content in which they’re learning, or just to be consumers of the information, but truly how to be creators of their own learning. You know, I think what we have seen in this political environment…it’s so important for individuals to have research and critical thinking skills. Skills that many people identify as soft skills, but I see them as lifelong success skills. Because if you can’t think critically or solve problems, you can’t communicate all those skills, again, that people say are soft, but they really are skills for success. We have to be able to allow our students to have an opportunity to become the creative creators of their own learning agencies. And that allows them to utilize some of those skills and refine them and continue to work towards making this world a better place.
You know, I’m at a point in my career where I don’t ask kids what they want to be anymore because they’ll tell you, ohhhh, I want to be a doctor, I want to be a teacher, I want to be artists, I want to be a singer, I want to be an NFL player. All this from one person. I think we know that in the future kids will have a number of different careers. I think we are at a place in education, where we work with kids on how to solve today’s problems. And those are the things I ask students here in Lancaster. What problem do you want to solve later in life? Or what do you see as the biggest challenge that you want to help people overcome? If we’re preparing our kids to be creative creators of their own learning agencies, I think we put them in a better position to be successful and allow them to thrive in this global community that we all live in.
Dr. Kishimoto:
Absolutely. So Dr. Perera, final question. Suit Jacket, LSU shirt underneath, the pearls. What’s up with the outfit today?
Dr. Perera:
Well, on Wednesdays, not only is it my day to visit schools, but in our district, we have this long-standing tradition of “wear-it-Wednesday”. So you either wear a jersey or shirt of your favorite team or university that you attended. Or a sorority or fraternity because my district is majority black. And we have a lot of professionals who are involved in what we call the divine nine, historically black fraternities and sororities. So normally most times I have on pink and green. Today I chose to wear the LSU piece. And no, I was not a student at LSU. But I certainly spent a lot of money with my children who went to LSU a few years ago. I still have the jersey and why not wear it. And I’m going to show you one more thing, with my sneakers. Yeah, you guys can keep your stilettos. I’m gonna take my sneakers.
Dr. Kishimoto:
I am so with you. You know, for me, it’s the baseball caps that I love to wear.
Dr. Perera:
It’s just not a Saturday or Sunday, but I promise you I wear them a lot. The students get a kick out of the fact that I’m a sneakerhead. So I love it.
Dr. Kishimoto:
That’s great! I just enjoy talking with you. Thank you for these few minutes to talk with you and also to give the world a chance to get to know a little bit about you. There are so many amazing women leading in education today that it’s a personal joy to be able to share stories like yours. And I am also excited that you’re going to be at the When Women Lead conference in June as one of our session speakers. We’re gonna have a great time. You know, a hotel full of women, talking policy and enjoying each other’s company, is my kind of time.
Dr. Perera:
Absolutely. I think we’ll all geek out! That’s the thing.
Dr. Kishimoto:
Sounds good. You can bring your sneakers.
Dr. Perera:
Trust me, I will.
Dr. Kishimoto:
Sounds good. Thank you
