Christina:
Hello, Leslie. Good to see you. You’re in Hartford, I believe, in your office now?
Leslie:
It’s good to see you. I am. Yes.
Christina:
I am sitting in Atlanta, Georgia, right now at the CCSSO conference on assessment. It’s a little surreal to be talking about assessment in the middle of everything else we’re talking about these days, policy wise.
Leslie:
Let me tell you; I just finished one of four cabinet retreats this summer. And we were forecasting, and assessment was part of our conversation. So whether we want to have a conversation about assessment or not, it is part of the complexity we have to sort through.
Christina:
In the last session I was sitting in, there was talk of everything from knowledge and hopefulness around where we should go with assessment. And there was also the side chatter of what we’re tired of. Teachers feel tired. And those are all things that, as a superintendent, I’m sure you’re trying to balance every day.
Leslie:
Those are tensions we live with and try to manage and support. If we can’t do away with summative assessments because we know, there are other implications, and it’s not our call to make fully, yet. At least, what can we manage from what we can control? So, then what do our interim assessments look like? What is the opportunity for mastery-based opportunities in between until we get to the place where we reimagine the teaching and learning experience?
Christina:
Absolutely. Well said. So, how long have you been in Hartford, Connecticut as superintendent?
Leslie:
Five and a half years.
Christina:
That’s incredible. That is hard to believe. Where does the time go?
Leslie:
It just flies. And then you have COVID. And then a pandemic happens. Then you realize, ooooh, 27 months in a pandemic. So, half of my superintendency has been leading and managing through the unexpected.
Christina:
You’ve been an incredible leader for Hartford. Hartford is this really special place. If folks don’t know, Connecticut, there’s little that they know. They really can’t imagine what Hartford is like, because it is so unique, even within the context of the state of Connecticut. And as a person who lived in Connecticut, I know Hartford and the surrounding areas of Hartford. So I would love for you to talk a little bit about what makes Hartford unique and incredibly special.
Leslie:
Yes, it is unique when I think about it from a district perspective. The backdrop is that we are a district of choice. We are part of a regional school choice effort. It has historically tried to address the need to integrate our schools and ultimately get at equity. It is something that I feel like I’m a loner in terms of the context in which I have to lead. There is no other superintendent or school district with the same context as Hartford. We have 39 schools, and half of those are magnet schools. We welcome students from 85 different towns. Think about the opportunity that brings for us while at the same time trying to ensure that we are maintaining the integrity of our mission and our commitment to equity.
While we want to draw diversity to our schools from our surrounding towns, we don’t want to do so at the expense of our community schools in our neighborhoods. So how do we honor all of that? And at the same time, we have to consider that we’re a capital city. So, anything and everything that happens gets magnified. And it allows me an opportunity to maximize. There are levers that I can pull when it’s time to amplify voice, a challenge, or inequity at play. There are a variety of opportunities we have. And we have the beauty of who we are as a city. We happen to be a gateway. We are a city that welcomes new arrivals, and it has for decades. It’s how I came here from Puerto Rico directly to Hartford. And it happens to be part of the larger diaspora in terms of welcoming people from all over, especially the deep ties we have to the island of Puerto Rico.
Christina:
I’d love to discuss your coming to Hartford and your family’s transition there. But I’d like not to forget to go deeper into this topic of choice. Hartford is not a district of choice because it always has been. It’s choice by design. And it took a lot of thought leadership to get to where it is now. And some of it was pressure from outside. Some of it was internal pressures, and some were design matters by various leaders. So how did Hartford become a district of choice? Because it’s a fascinating design.
Leslie:
It is. You’re right that multiple lenses are continuously applied. So about 30 years ago, we had a landmark case that called the segregation or segregated experiences that were happening for our students. The plaintiffs, a group of parents, strongly led in making sure the resources and the experiences students were having in our suburban neighborhoods were also being afforded to the students in the city, in Hartford. It led to students being bussed to the suburbs and making some design choices within the city. Iterations of that agreement between the state, the plaintiff, and the city have resulted in the birth of beautiful opportunities around magnet schools.
And giving communities an opportunity to lift their voice and be the drivers of school design, beautiful schools, and beautiful themes that are still at play. I believe that we’re now in the fifth iteration of the agreement. We are ensuring that we first and foremost stay grounded in the opportunity for students to have that high-quality integrated experience. If it doesn’t allow 100% of our students to have access, then we still have a responsibility to ensure that we get those opportunities in our neighborhood schools. There have been many before me. Those are the shoulders of the giants that, quite frankly, I stand on and want to make sure that we continue to extend on those strong foundations.
This was started by parents and student voice, which is ultimately at the center of what we’re here to cultivate.
Christina:
I think that’s an important point because the public schools belong to and in the community. Even through part of the iterations of the Sheff v. O’Neill case, NCLB came about with this perspective of shutting down low-performing schools. Hartford and the state were trying to figure out how do you redesign a district, not just in what’s offered, but the whole mindset of the value and work of the people in that community? And the parents were the ones that brought about that case. One of the things I remember is Elizabeth Sheff (namesake of the landmark desegregation case) and the parents that were part of that conversation. I’d love for you to talk about how you, as a superintendent, would advise other superintendents who haven’t dealt with the breadth and depth of what you have led through. It’s difficult when the pressure is coming from within. You agree with the parents, but you’re not necessarily with them. You’re on the other side. The state’s pressuring you, the district and the city are pressuring you, other advocates are pressuring you, and the parents are expecting something from you. How do you work through that and still honor, first and foremost, what parents and kids want and need?
Leslie:
That, in a nutshell, is the constant test and tension that I have and that I don’t know I will ever be able to fully reconcile, honestly. Those continue to be needs that the multiple stakeholders have. First, it starts with maintaining our integrity to what I call proximity. And it’s staying connected and continuously creating structures for those feedback loops that are so important. And quite frankly, it became so important when I was tasked with right-sizing our district. I didn’t want to make this about schools failing because we know that historically, whether in Hartford or any other urban or rural area that has been disinvested, those conditions impact student outcomes. Having to right-size our district and close 20% of our schools as a first-year superintendent was so challenging. I stayed true to making sure I was transparent and that I was a co-designer.
Often, I fell back and let our families, students, and community drive and facilitate those conversations and inform the thinking so I could make recommendations to the board. Because at the end of the day the Board is responsible for closing a school. And so, I appreciate how you’re framing it around the stakeholders. But, to me, the ones that remained and were at the forefront at all times, especially during that most painful time, were our parents and our students. Now, does that mean that I didn’t face a challenge and that I didn’t have pushback from parents? Absolutely! School closures are in historically marginalized communities. Schools are a staple. They are part of the fabric of a community.
Christina:
It’s so interesting when you’re coming into a district, like Hartford public schools, and you’re coming in with that passion and commitment to community and kids, and to what’s most important, which is access for young people, and that equity of access. You come in with that passion and mindset and are received with open arms, and the community was excited about your arrival. Once you come into the system, you then become part of the system. In many ways, our novice superintendents coming into systems now have the complexity of COVID and what is still lingering from that. Then it’s also the understanding you develop as an experienced Superintendent of what it means that no matter how passionate you are, you are now part of the system. Parents and students see you as part of the system and not necessarily as on their side, even if you are. What is your advice to novice superintendents about what it means, especially if they’re going to lead a place like Hartford, with great promise, great potential, and great progress, but still has a lot of work to do?
Leslie:
I would say it’s building those relationships early on. Slow down, get to know the community, and listen and hear. I found that many of the families I encountered just didn’t feel heard. So, spending time to cultivate and message the fact that there will be times in which decisions will be made, and transparently and humbly saying, I will not get it right at all times. And grace may or may not be afforded. To the extent that we can have those honest conversations, I think we underestimate how that is perceived. I’m also very aware that there are gender dynamics at play. As a female superintendent, you also have to balance how vulnerable or transparent you can be because I know that can be a double-edged sword. I would say the one takeaway is getting close and getting to know the community. Get to know the parents, the students, and by extension, the staff and the partners. If an investment can be made early on, it is definitely with parents and students.
Christina:
I know you bring a lot of history to Hartford, even before you became superintendent. So I’d love to have you share a little about your upbringing, your earliest connection with Hartford, and why Hartford means something so personal to you.
Leslie:
I don’t want to gloss over the fact that if I were in another district, I don’t know that I would feel the way I feel. Hartford is extremely personal for me. At nine, I came here from Puerto Rico with my mother, brother, and myself. My mother was looking for a safer and brighter future for us. We landed smack in the center of Park Street, which happened to be a Latino community at that point in the 80s. It was in Hartford that I first met my teacher, who happened to be a Puerto Rican woman. I looked at her and said, I’m going to be like her when I grow up. I’m going to be an educator. She’s the one that exposed me to my first visit to a university in fifth grade.
My mother accessed community-based support when she had two jobs and needed to learn English at the local community center. So, I have a deep appreciation and respect for the power of community-based support and organizations. I would be remiss if I also didn’t share that there were times when I did not face the high expectations I should have. There were times when, though well-intentioned and loving adults surrounded me, I was fully disengaged as a student, and the only thing that kept me going to school was my after-school job. I worked at a local pharmacy, and my mother said that if you want to work, you have to continue going to school. All those things play out for me in terms of the deep level of commitment. I knew someday I wanted to give back. Hartford became my second home after leaving Puerto Rico. I think a lot has been given to me. I’m a child of poverty, so when I measure what I’m able to provide for my own family now and what my mother and my family couldn’t for me, as my grandfather was an illiterate man with a second-grade education and my father an eighth-grade education, when I reflect on that, the least I can do is give back to this community that has given me so much.
Christina:
I appreciate you sharing that story. I think the stories that our leaders, especially our women leaders of color, share, shows so much about what we experience that lead to a mindset we bring to education and the real student-focused mindset that we bring. It shows in the way in which you engage student voice and how important the voices of students are. One of the things I’m so impressed by is your experience in Hartford. You also recognize and have spoken to the fact that the students now have their experience in Hartford. The Hartford you grew up in is not the exact Hartford as they experience it now. Yet, you allow for that authentic student voice. There is a lot you can share about that.
Leslie:
Absolutely. When we designed our reimagined district, it was students that said to us; we want more pathways, we want more career pathways, we want to make sure that there is an authentic opportunity for us, and we want to be part of the budget development process. It was our students in our Student Advisory Council that said we need to prioritize more counselors and we need to prioritize more support for our multilingual learners. Giving students a voice to share what they think and actually be part of the solution and inform policy is so valuable and powerful. Ultimately, when our students leave us, we want them to be the best-informed consumers of information, of the rights they have, and how to go about impacting change in their world. What better space to allow them to learn and grapple with some complex issues while they’re with us in school and create the opportunities for them to do that?
Christina:
Speaking about complex issues, kids are seeing it in their feed on their phones or hearing adults talking about it in different ways. There are so many policy issues right now that are quite controversial nationally. Roe v. Wade is one of those, whereas adults, we talk about the implications for that legislation, and whether that will stay, whether that will change across states, or what will happen. We don’t often remember to ask kids what they’re hearing, what they’re thinking, or what they would like. Ultimately, all these issues come through our schools. How do you manage these kinds of significant policy issues that are impacting our states?
Leslie:
One of the things that I have done and continue to do is first acknowledge that I cannot not understand what’s happening. Therefore, I cannot not create opportunities to engage in the discourse. We see that whether we want to or not. Not only are students wondering what this is about, but our staff is also showing up with their belief system, biases, curiosity, and discomfort around these topics. So I’d rather create opportunities to engage in the dialogue.
I’m a parent of a 20-year-old and a 15-year-old. When my 15-year-old son came home a few days ago and asked, what’s all of this about Roe v Wade? Talk about unpacking a conversation around fundamental rights to choose, civil rights, and rights to privacy. There are major gender dynamics at play. Creating a culture in Hartford public schools where we not only talk about but also try to solve and work through really complex issues that sometimes are not solvable immediately and sometimes feel very, very, very uncomfortable. As leaders, I believe it is our responsibility to model the practice we want to see in our adults and our students. Shying away from certain conversations is unacceptable. I am not saying you have to come out and say; here is where I stand personally. However, we are a system in which democracy must be discussed and allow opportunities for our students to challenge that which is evolving right in front of our eyes.
Christina:
I’m hopeful our students, as the next generation of leaders, will take this to a better place.
I know you have another platform to be part of some of these national conversations as you’re on the ALAS board, the Association of Latino Administrators and Superintendents. Can you share a little bit about that work and why that’s important to you?
Leslie:
Years ago, I stumbled upon ALAS, and I thought, oh my, there are others I aspire to be like, others like me, and I don’t have that local network. To feel that I had colleagues across the country that had similar experiences to mine was so important to me. ALAS has such an important place in my heart because I not only have thought partnership, but we are actually able to inform policy.
Christina:
I always love seeing superintendents serving on national boards because it brings that voice. The complexity of the school superintendent is unmatched in any other field in terms of the scope of work you do in a day. Bringing executive thought leadership to some of these national boards is important work. I thank you for that service. It’s important to not only lead in your community but bring that leadership to the state and national context.
Leslie:
It provides an opportunity for me as a learner. I take a learner’s stance often. I lead, but I learn. In having an opportunity to sit alongside colleagues that either lead in much larger districts or a district that has two schools, for example, we’re able to work across those challenges and identify ways to support one another and push one another as well.
Christina:
I’d love to discuss what you think was the most powerful lever that projected you into the superintendency. What were those moments in your life that were precursors to ending up where you are, not the education pathway necessarily, but more so the mindset you need to lead as a school superintendent and to feel that you are leading with all heart and passion and focus on kids? What were some of those important points in your life that you can point to now as you look back that was so critical to where you are now?
Leslie:
There are key markers. One encompasses female leaders. Having female leaders that I identified with or have said to me, have you thought about management or leadership. You have this thing that you do really well, and it could serve you in this way. We often don’t know what that looks like. We need that voice to point it out to us.
A key for me early on was when I was halfway through my undergraduate on my way to becoming a teacher. I was in school full-time and working full-time and ran out of money. My financial aid wasn’t enough. So I decided to take a year off, knowing that potentially I may never return to school. A professor said to me, “that is not the only way. There are other ways to get there”. So, I shifted my major, got access to financial aid, and became a social work major.
That was a big lesson in being flexible and adaptable. As I reflect, I had been doing that even as a child. When we migrated to this country, we had to come to a new way of life, a new culture, and a new language. Those key moments shaped how I approach leadership and significant challenges that have given me what I need and what many of my colleagues need in traditionally underserved districts.
We have to be resolute in what we believe, as there is not one linear way of solving these complex issues.
So, having role models to point out the capacity I may not have been able to identify on my own, realizing the power of being adaptable and non-linear.
Christina:
Those are powerful statements. So often, when we are not careful, we project to kids, whether that’s a language adjustment they are making, acquisition of a new culture, a new way of understanding how to reengage, or how to hang on to the value of who they are and their story, sometimes adults project that as a deficit. But, it’s an incredible asset and readiness for a world of leadership that is out there for them in various fields. So, sharing your story is powerful, and something kids and other women and leaders of color need to hear because of the mixed messages we often get as we grow up in our communities.
Dr. Torres, I am incredibly proud of you as a colleague and a friend. Thank you for sitting with me to share a part of your story. I encourage you to continue to share your powerful testimony and story as it can change lives. There are so many for us to extend our hand back to and pull them along and help them attain these seats because they have so much to offer. And our kids need great leaders, so I thank you for being one of those great leaders in this nation.
Leslie:
Thank you for the opportunity and this platform you are creating for others around policy and voice. Knowing, at one point or another, we must continue to reach and pull, and I see you doing that as well. So I am super thankful as well.
